‘VisionQuest’ Creator Terry Matalas Tells All About That Supersized Finale and Post-Credits Surprise

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[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from the finale of VisionQuest, “Forever.”]

For showrunner Terry Matalas, VisionQuest was always going to be a Marvel show about fathers and sons.

When he was tapped a few years ago to redevelop the final chapter of the WandaVision trilogy — taking over from creator Jac Schaeffer, who reportedly stepped away from the project to focus on Agatha All Along, the second installment starring Kathryn Hahn — Matalas received just one clear directive from Marvel Studios boss Kevin Feige. The new sequel series had to center on Paul Bettany’s synthezoid Vision and his superpowered son Tommy Maximoff — one of the twin boys he shared with Wanda Maximoff (Elizabeth Olsen), the Scarlet Witch who ostensibly perished at the end of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

“We knew Tommy was going to be a part of it, and then I had to ask myself, ‘Who is Vision talking to? He doesn’t have Wanda in this show, and Tommy felt like something you want to get to,’” Matalas explains to The Hollywood Reporter. “So I immediately went to Vision’s father, and specifically Ultron [played by] James Spader. I was so enamored by that last scene in Avengers: Age of Ultron between the two of them and asked myself, ‘Well, what if that was the show?’”

Over the course of eight episodes, the newly resurrected “White Vision” — whose original memories had been locked away by the agency S.W.O.R.D. following his death in Avengers: Infinity War, only to have them unlocked by the Hex-created version of himself in the WandaVision finale before flying away — embarks on a deeply psychological journey of self-discovery. As he grapples with his fractured identity, Vision confronts a philosophical, mirror-image Ultron — his deeply toxic, cynical creator functioning as a dark father figure — and struggles to accept Thomas Shepherd (Ruaridh Mollica), an orphaned teenager who is the super-powered reincarnation of his and Wanda’s son Tommy.

Though she was credited as an executive producer, Schaeffer was not creatively involved in VisionQuest, wanting to give Matalas and his writers’ room — most of whom had worked with him on Star Trek: Picard — “a blank canvas” to play with. “I called her briefly to thank her and just because I’m such a fan of what she did with WandaVision. I watched every episode of that twice when it came out and then would go on YouTube and dissect every single Easter egg,” Matalas says. “But she was very clear upfront that she didn’t want to share any creative [input].”

The VisionQuest finale, however, still pays tribute to WandaVision and Agatha in more ways than one. The series’ overarching puppet master — revealed to be “The Client,” Virgil Horton (also played by Spader, whose human identity inspired Ultron’s avatar) — holds Vision and the A.I. Jocasta (T’Nia Miller) captive to execute a plot for digital immortality. When Virgil fatally shoots Jocasta, a devastated Ultron murders Virgil and unleashes a lethal nanobot swarm on London. To stop the genocidal A.I., Vision traps them both within a creative WandaVision-style sitcom simulation dubbed UltraVision, forcing Ultron to confront the profound heartbreak of losing Jocasta — the A.I. companion he unwittingly fell for — which ultimately neutralizes the threat and causes both of their systems to collapse.

In the aftermath, Tommy and his twin brother Billy (Joe Locke) — who was last seen in Agatha — work together using their combined powers to successfully bring their father back to life. The finale also features a post-credits scene — not included in the screeners sent out to press — of Robert Downey Jr.’s Doctor Doom resurrecting Wanda, who had seemingly been crushed under a mountain amid her grief over losing Vision and their twins at the end of Multiverse of Madness. The Maximoff family reunion is on!

Calling from New York City just hours before the VisionQuest finale dropped on Disney+ on Tuesday, Matalas opened up below to THR about how the show became another meditation on grief in the MCU, why he decided to have Vision and Tommy reunite with Billy but not Wanda — and that ominous mid-credits scene with Ultron. As the former showrunner of Picard, Matalas also pays tribute to Patrick Stewart, who died Oct. 28 at the age of 86: “I’d like to remember him kind of where we left him [in Picard], which was at that poker table surrounded by his friends laughing.”

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In addition to writing episodes one, two and eight, you also directed episodes seven and eight — which really crack Vision open emotionally and pay off his relationships with Tommy and Ultron. What was most important to you when you were figuring out how to land the plane, so to speak, on VisionQuest? Why was this the right ending in your mind?

I do think that all endings need to touch on the beginning in some way. So honoring WandaVision by going back to the sitcom format as sort of the last battle was always our north star from the beginning of the writers’ room. We had a few different versions of it, but it felt like the right way to end it rather than just doing a rock and sock ’em robot battle royale — which we do, so we give Marvel fans their popcorn. We thought it would be fun to play out the final struggle with these two within this father-son sitcom. [A reference to] Sanford and Son is one of the first images you see in the first episode [of UltraVision], so we knew we were heading into a kind of All in the Family, Sanford and Son dynamic between Ultron and Vision.

You mentioned that Jac did not want to be creatively involved in VisionQuest, but does she know that you paid homage to her with this show-within-a-show format?

No, as far as I know, she doesn’t have an idea.

There are so many fun little WandaVision Easter eggs in UltraVision, but I particularly loved flipping through all of the wacky episode titles. You came up with so many of them!

I actually did those in post. I think we had generated a list early on from a few different writers, but ultimately that came together in post. It’s the most fun ever. We kind of wish we saw every one of those episodes. I remember when we screened it for Kevin Feige, one of the questions I asked just to double check was, “Does UltraVision go on too long?” And he cut me off immediately and yelled, “No!” He’s like, “It could go on for another 90 minutes, and I would’ve watched every minute of it.” So it was a big swing. We were really scared. We didn’t know if that was going to work, and as of this moment, it hasn’t aired, so I don’t know if it has. (Laughs.) So we’ll see.

For all the theatrics of UltraVision, which turns out to be an ineffective way for Vision to appeal to Ultron’s better angels, Vision knows that the only way he can stop Ultron from using the nanobots as a weapon of mass destruction is by forcing him to feel the grief of losing Jocasta. What did you want those final one-on-one conversations between Vision and Ultron to represent?

I think Vision says it best, which is that we couldn’t process this alone, and that grief really is about opening up and bringing it to light, as is all pain and trauma. I hope that that’s the message people walk away with, which is you can’t really just bury it in your code. You really do have to face it head on, and it’s very hard to do it alone.

Why do you think Vision is the only one who is able to get through to Ultron in the end?

I think Vision is the only one he respects, whether that is because of Ultron’s own ego and that Vision was sort of his own vision, if you will, as to what he could be. But we always knew we wanted to take Ultron into a place from the comics. Ultron fell in love with Jocasta in the original comic books, and bringing him along into the same kind of journey that Vision had been facing all season felt like the right story for those two to truly understand each other by the end.

We had a few different versions [of Ultron’s final scene]. We had a deleted scene in which Jocasta actually was sitting with Ultron in the mansion at the end and had survived. And now, we just sort of hint that he’s going to, at some point, bring her back. And then the question is: Will that start the cycle all over again? Is he going to be doing the same thing Wanda did or Vision did, and not really face his grief and then find another way to bring back his loss? And would she even want that? So it felt like the right end of the circle, if you will.

You’re referring to the mid-credits scene of Ultron holding onto a hard drive labelled “Jocasta.” Why did you choose to include that final scene? Was that a directive from Marvel?

We were all so in love with Jocasta and [wanted] a promise that she would continue on in some way. Again, we had a deleted scene in which she magnificently survived. I think that scene will maybe one day see the light of day, but it sort of, in totality, robbed the finale of its punch a bit when we had it there. But there were no true directives from Marvel other than Tommy was going to meet Vision, and that by the end, cold white Vision would return to his original red self. That’s a pretty blank canvas to work from. Working with Marvel was truly wonderful and collaborative in every way.

Paul Bettany told me that Marvel’s initial plan was always to center VisionQuest around Vision and Tommy, but did you always plan to bring Billy back into the fold as well?

You had to. The end of Agatha was [Agatha and Billy saying], “Let’s go find Tommy.” I think it would’ve been terrible and not very satisfying to not see the boys reunited with their father by the end.

Did you ever consider introducing Billy earlier in the story, or were you always planning to bring him back to save Vision alongside Tommy in the finale?

We entertained it; we talked about it. But if Billy came back early, it robbed Tommy and Vision of their own story and alleviated too much tension too early, and wasn’t as emotional as when he comes back and saves the day in the last moment when they need him most. I didn’t want to do that to Billy. I didn’t want to make him a supporting character in someone else’s struggle, so really earning Billy felt like the right way, to us, to do it.

What were those days like on set for you to watch Paul, Ruaridh and Joe together on screen for the first time? Were both of Billy’s scenes filmed on the same day?

We had the scene with Tommy and Billy where they first connect psychically — that was on another day [before the father-sons reunion]. Those boys were so much fun to direct. We were in this tiny room that was about a thousand degrees because we lit about 800 candles. They were just so down to play. There are a couple of deleted fun bits that we came up with on the spot that will come out, but they had a great chemistry and we would be excited to see more of those two together in the future as well. But as far as the end where Billy returns to save the family there, I think maybe we had two hours to do all that. It’s television and you don’t have the luxury of the time, but it was great. Joe’s wonderful and so down to try new things, as is Ruaridh. We were fortunate that the father and sons had great chemistry.

In their final scene together, Tommy asks Vision if he thinks there is any chance, with the two of them and Billy still around, that they may see Wanda again. In a callback to WandaVision, Vision tells Tommy, “We have said goodbye before, so it stands to reason… we’ll say hello again.” Was that line your idea, or did it come out of a collaboration with Paul or the rest of the writers?

It was my idea. As I was writing it, even though that Vision wouldn’t know that Hex Vision said that, so much of his soul was the same that it felt right that he would say the same thing he said to Wanda at the end of WandaVision. And we had to ask the question! For me, you couldn’t not address, “Are we going to see Mom again?” I would be sad if I watched a show, with all this magic and reunion out there, where they weren’t asking that question of, could it be possible [to see her again] in this universe?

You have certainly left the door open for a Maximoff family reunion in the near future. Did you ever have any discussions with Paul or the rest of the creative team about Wanda returning in the VisionQuest finale?

Yes, of course. It’s a thing that comes up constantly. Paul and I did experiment with a moment as he was dying, and it just felt like an added element in a big emotional sweep that was really about Vision and Ultron, and Vision, Tommy and Billy. It’s such a big idea to have Wanda there that you no longer pay attention to the rest of the arcs that are playing out. But I do feel like she’s very much in the room. My brilliant editor, Drew Nichols, found this shot of Wanda from WandaVision where she looks and smiles, and when he thinks of her and he’s talking about how love always leads to loss, I felt like we had her. I felt like we had honored her, but it didn’t really work to have her back in a dreamy way at the end.

Ruaridh Mollica has affectionately referred to Tommy and Billy as the “queer twin brothers” of the MCU, and he has openly talked about the personal significance of a bisexual actor being cast to play a bisexual character in such an expansive fictional universe. Given what is already established in the comics, did you ever consider alluding to Tommy’s bisexuality more explicitly in the show? Was there any reason that you chose not to this time around?

We do have a lot of Easter eggs to it. We wanted to start with Lisa [Molinari, played by Lauren Morais] because in the comics he had this relationship with Lisa coming right out of juvie, which we thought was interesting. But there wasn’t really a lot of time for him to be exploring his sexuality with the stakes so high. We definitely put in some queer and bisexual-coded patches; [for instance] there are these patches on his green jacket in the third episode. Those are promises, I suppose, for future stories and relationships. But with eight episodes, you got to pick one, and the stakes were very high for him to be flirting. (Laughs.)

Billy comes back to save the day wearing his signature blue crown, but Tommy’s green Adidas jacket is the closest we ever get to seeing him wear a super suit this season.

We had discussions about a super suit, and sort of like the moment with Wanda, if it’s not organic, it feels jammed in. We just could not find a logical reason for this kid to have a super suit. (Laughs.) There was no way that was not cheesy to do it. So we tried to get the closest thing we can to normal real world wear to honor his look so that maybe one day down the line we’ll have a super suit.

The last time we see Vision and Tommy on screen together in the finale, they are talking about having dinner with Billy in Eastview. How do you think Vision feels now that he has reconnected with and effectively has to parent both of his boys as young men?

I mean, that’s the thing I want to see, right? The family, at least for the most part, minus one critical component, is reunited. So what is that like now? You get a little dose of it with him telling Tommy saying, “I know if your mom was here, she’d want you to continue your education.” So I think Vision’s got to go be a dad, and I would love nothing more than to see what that’s like.

Have you had any conversations yet about working on future installments of the MCU? Is there a world in which VisionQuest could be expanded into an ongoing series, or did you always see this as a limited series?

I have to be careful what I say.

Fair enough.

I will say that we have so, so many ideas. And if I were having those conversations, there’s no way I could say that I was having those conversations. But who would not want to see this family again?

I was so sad to hear about the passing of Patrick Stewart, with whom you worked closely on Star Trek: Picard, and I’m very sorry for your loss. A lot of people on social media have thanked you for giving them the final gift of revisiting and saying goodbye to Patrick’s Picard, even though no one knew for sure that that would be the last time he’d play the character. Given that you began your career working on Star Trek: Enterprise, what did working on Picard with him mean to you personally, and how would you like to remember him?

I’d like to remember him kind of where we left him, which was at that poker table surrounded by his friends laughing. I was lucky enough to write and direct the last few moments of Captain Picard. It’s an honor I didn’t feel like I deserved, but feel blessed to have. The last scene with all of them, I really wanted to capture who he was around that cast. They were all dear friends and family in every way to him. What I did was I just let them actually play poker and joke and have fun. All of those smiles, all of those laughs from everyone and especially Patrick, were genuine. I wanted the fans in the world to see that because it’s an extraordinary thing to be around a cast like that, that truly loves each other that way.

I wanted to leave Captain Picard for everyone with all of them in a moment of joy and reunion, as opposed to him dying on the bridge of a starship or something like that. I like a happy ending — not always, but specifically in this case, this is how I wanted to leave that cast. It’s very kind for people to thank me, but I just played a small part in this universe and was honored to do it.

Do you remember the first time you met him? Was it when you were working as a PA on the Paramount lot and driving him around on golf carts?

Yeah, that’s exactly what it was. You do your research! (Laughs.) My first job in Hollywood was as a production assistant on Star Trek: Voyager, and I believe they started to shoot Star Trek: Insurrection within my first month. Merri Howard, who was my boss and mentor, pulled me from the television show to work on that movie for a day and just take care of Patrick and drive him around and get him coffee and orange juice. And going from that kid who would sneak on to the bridge of the Enterprise E, to bringing him back to the Enterprise D, is such a surreal, unbelievable journey. It’s a very Hollywood dream come true, and I just feel lucky to have been part of Star Trek for so long and hope to continue someday with more of it.

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All episodes of VisionQuest are now streaming on Disney+.